Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

You need some help attaching the thermostat to your specific boiler. This way please !
AndrewM
Posts: 11
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 10:23

Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by AndrewM »

Hello all,

I installed a thermostat and relay as well as individual radiator valves in my house last year. This system was to replace a basic timer controlled single zone heating system

The timeclock basically switched on and off the boiler and pump. The boiler also operated on it's own thermostat, set for 70 degrees.

Unsure as to the load switching capability of the relay I wired it through a contactor which then switched the boiler and pump on depending on whether a radiator was calling for heat or not. This worked very well up until recently when I discovered that even without the light being on in the relay it was sending power to the boiler and pump. It appears that the contacts are stuck in the on position internally.

I wrote to Netatmo and they said that because I had switched an inductive load, the coil on the contactor, that I had damaged the relay and this is not covered under warranty. They said they are only designed for a resistive load.

I responded that the instructions that came with it said that the relay was be used to control the boiler and or pump, both inductive loads.

Has anyone any experience with this?

If I have wired it incorrectly can someone suggest how I should wire it in to replace a basic analogue timeclock with only live/neutral in and switched live/neutral out.

Thanks in advance

Andrew
GEORGzer
Posts: 2663
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by GEORGzer »

The Relais should be capable to switch up to 4A, but I can see that this might wear out the contact as support described.
If you can tell us your exact boiler type and model, I can look into it.

If your system has no separate control-terminals, then you might need to use an additional electrical contactor for high loads in between the Relais and your system.
But since you had a timeclock, which was supposedly controlling your system and not switching the full electrical load, then these live-wires should be the ones to either connect to the Relais‘ grey/black wires or the terminals on the back of the Netatmo Thermostat while the neutral ones just need to be connected.
Home: Weather Station (V3 + Rain & Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules, Shield), Valves Starter Pack + 7 Valves, Video Doorbell
Office: Thermostat (V2), Healthy Home Coach, Smoke Alarm, 2 2in1 Sensors

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AndrewM
Posts: 11
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 10:23

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by AndrewM »

Hi GEORGzer, thanks for answering so quickly.

The boiler is a Firebird Environmax Popular which is showing as compatible on the Netatmo website.

The original system did not have internal thermostatic control, just an analogue timer which switched the boiler and pump on at the set times.

I took the timer out of the equation and installed the netatmo relais in it's place. The netatmo thermostat is wirlessly connected to the relais.

I wired this as follows,

Brown and blue on relais to mains live and neutral, 5 amp fuse protected supply, grey from relais to mains permanent live, black on relais to A1 (coil) on a separate contactor between the relais and the boiler and pump.



The relais is only switching the contactor coil load and not the boiler and pump.

Netatmo say I have burnt out the relais contacts as I have been switching an inductive load and that they are only designed for resistive loads. This makes no sense to me.

What do you think?

Andrew
GEORGzer
Posts: 2663
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by GEORGzer »

Hm, so did you replace the old timer 1:1 with the Relais, meaning it used to handle the same load as the Relais does now?
Home: Weather Station (V3 + Rain & Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules, Shield), Valves Starter Pack + 7 Valves, Video Doorbell
Office: Thermostat (V2), Healthy Home Coach, Smoke Alarm, 2 2in1 Sensors

Not a Netatmo employee
GEORGzer
Posts: 2663
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by GEORGzer »

All the manuals I could find contain this wiring diagram:
8CB0745C-89C0-4D38-BC8E-69D4A159034C.jpeg
8CB0745C-89C0-4D38-BC8E-69D4A159034C.jpeg (385.52 KiB) Viewed 965 times

Therefore the black/grey wired must be connected to T1 (with the supply live-wire) and T2.
If this is the case then you did everything correct.
Home: Weather Station (V3 + Rain & Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules, Shield), Valves Starter Pack + 7 Valves, Video Doorbell
Office: Thermostat (V2), Healthy Home Coach, Smoke Alarm, 2 2in1 Sensors

Not a Netatmo employee
AndrewM
Posts: 11
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 10:23

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by AndrewM »

Thanks GEORGzer,

I disconnected and removed the timer and used that original mains supply to power the relais. The timer was able to switch the boiler load without any contactor in between. Because I was unsure of the load switching capability of the relais I used a contactor so that the relais only switched a coil and the boiler load switched through the contacts.

I have sent Netatmo another email with a diagram showing how it was wired and have asked them to come back to me with how they think I should have wired it. I think that the relais is faulty but they do not agree at the moment.

Andrew
AndrewM
Posts: 11
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 10:23

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by AndrewM »

IMG_4350.jpg
IMG_4350.jpg (4.32 MiB) Viewed 965 times
GEORGzer
Posts: 2663
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by GEORGzer »

Interesting 🤔
Let‘s wait for the support‘s response.
You can send them a link to this topic as well.
Home: Weather Station (V3 + Rain & Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules, Shield), Valves Starter Pack + 7 Valves, Video Doorbell
Office: Thermostat (V2), Healthy Home Coach, Smoke Alarm, 2 2in1 Sensors

Not a Netatmo employee
AndrewM
Posts: 11
Joined: 11 Mar 2021, 10:23

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by AndrewM »

Would you say that this wiring was correct GEORGzer?

It did work but now with the contacts fused the pump and boiler stay running 24/7.

I really can't see how they can say that the relay cannot switch an inductive load when it is designed to switch boilers, which are inductive loads!

Andrew
GEORGzer
Posts: 2663
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Connecting relay to Firebird oil boiler

Post by GEORGzer »

I don‘t really see an issue here, specially since you didn‘t hook up your boiler directly but used a contactor in between.
Home: Weather Station (V3 + Rain & Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules, Shield), Valves Starter Pack + 7 Valves, Video Doorbell
Office: Thermostat (V2), Healthy Home Coach, Smoke Alarm, 2 2in1 Sensors

Not a Netatmo employee
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