FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on grafic

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Brieuc_Netatmo
Posts: 2948
Joined: 02 Jan 2014, 11:20

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by Brieuc_Netatmo » 22 Dec 2014, 10:07

Glad to hear this from you!
Merry Christmas too :-)
Brieuc - Netatmo Team

neti
Posts: 27
Joined: 03 Dec 2014, 06:43

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by neti » 30 Dec 2014, 09:09

Is it planned to implement this feature also for people without the netatmo thermometer?

gavsteryoung
Posts: 3
Joined: 04 Jan 2015, 19:38

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by gavsteryoung » 05 Jan 2015, 17:15

I would also love to see this feature. As the webapp asks for my location, and I believe will take temperature data from local weather stations...

It should be easy to allow it for both people with and without the Netatmo Weatherstations.

chiroptera
Posts: 1
Joined: 15 Feb 2015, 20:32

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by chiroptera » 15 Feb 2015, 20:41

mendip wrote:I forced the two devices not to see the DHCP server and assigned static IPs through the Netatmo setup utilities
Hmmm ... same IP assigned to two different devices within the same network?! My router does not accept such an setting and I cannot find an option like this in the Netatmo setup. How did you manage to have the same IP for weather station and thermostat?
Thanks.
chiroptera

Edit: There seems to be no need to have both devices assigned to the same IP. In the web interface it shows the outdoor temperature even with different IPs. Unfortunately this feature seems to be missing in the APP.

mendip
Posts: 39
Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 10:40

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by mendip » 15 Feb 2015, 22:34

Hi Chiroptera,
How did you manage to have the same IP for weather station and thermostat?
Indeed.......


AFAIK, there is no way of bringing up the Network (LAN) settings of Netatmo products, unless they encounter a problem during setup when connected to a PC. I guess they are designed to be like this, to help a lot of people with limited or no knowledge of networks, which is understandable.

The problem is with either the Thermostat or Weather Station, if they connect to a network with a DHCP server, they are happy and take their IP address assignments without question. As you (and I) both pointed out, it is unusual to achieve the same IP for two different MAC addresses on the same LAN subnet. For the record now, I have found out how to do so on my Cisco standalone DHCP server, but even that was hidden, and it won't help in this particular case.

Interstingly in my case the Netatmo Thermostat when first installed, did try and grab the same IP as the Weather station from the LAN, but was rejected, after five minutes and thus I had to resort to manual assignment .



Firstly I will tell you how I did it with my setup - that was your original question.......

I have many components to my network including separate modems, routers switches and DHCP servers etc., so it was probably relatively easy for me.

It was a case of fooling the Netatmo device into thinking it was connected to a network without a DHCP server, to bring up the Static IP configuration page of either device (which you will not see if there is a DHCP server on the Network during setup). I simply isolated the DHCP server during the setup wizard, and then re-enabled it.

I also helped a friend with a router and separate wireless access point and we did the following as he did not have a separate DHCP server; probably typical of most installations:

1) Run the setup wizard (even if you have done this before);
2) Connect either the Thermostat or Weather Station (you will need to do both in turn for the same IP) to your PC via USB;
3) When you get to the point of having successfully connected the device by USB (and before you click next), you need to remove the DHCP server function from your network, but still offer a wireless network. This was easy, I simply (temporarily) removed the LAN connection to the Access Point that the Netatmo device was connecting to;
4) Follow the setup procedure and select your wireless network. The Netatmo device will look for a DHCP IP server, but fail and eventually time-out and then display the hidden static IP address assignment page;
5) Enter the correct static IP address for your setup and then BEFORE clicking ok / save;
6) Reconnect the Access point to the LAN, so that when the Netatmo product uses the settings, it will be able to connect to the Netatmo Servers - if I didn't do this the settings would not save;
7) Complete the setup wizard - to save /write the settings to the device.



Now with you setup........

I believe from what you have said that you have an all in one Router, DHCP server and wireless access point, correct?

It should be possible to carry out a similar procedure, but without knowing what device you have (Router), I can only be generic in my suggestion.

I would if you know how to (and it is possible), temporarily switch off the DHCP component of the Router - normally found in LAN settings / configuration. Then similar to above:

1) Connect either the Thermostat or Weather Station (you will need to do both in turn for the same IP) to your PC;
2) Run the setup wizard (even if you have done this before);
3) Follow the setup procedure and select your wireless network; The Netatmo device will look for a DHCP IP server, but fail and eventually time-out and then display the hidden static IP address assignment page;
5) Enter the correct static IP address for your setup and then clicking save;
6) Complete the setup wizard - to save /write the settings to the device;
7) Repeat procedure above for the other Netatmo device;
8) Finally switch back on your DHCP server.

Word of caution when selecting the static IP address. Make sure it is outside the range of the addresses allocatable by the server, otherwise you might have an IP conflict. Interestingly I found that the static IP address page each time suggested an IP of 192.168.1.15, which I thought was very low, and would suggest something high such as 192.168.1.215, or x.x.x.215.


If you are unsure about how to achieve this on your router, I am more than happy to try to help. I am fully conversant with all Draytek most Cisco and most Netgear devices / appliances.

Alternatively, I know that the Netatmo team are aware of such a feature request, i.e. to be able select Static IP over Dynamic, even with a DHCP server on the network.


The Netatmo team seem (from reading this forum) to be able to do pretty much anything remotely to their devices, so if all else fails it is worth asking for their support. I have found them very helpful when asked, just allow them a little bit of time when contacting them and give as much detail as you can.

Edit: There seems to be no need to have both devices assigned to the same IP. In the web interface it shows the outdoor temperature even with different IPs. Unfortunately this feature seems to be missing in the APP.
Well there you go. I suspect they both maybe on the same IP address, as per my comment above about initial installation. At the end of the day I have answered your original question (how did I achieve it). I am not a member of the Netatmo team, and it is they who will ultimately know the correct answer. Brieuc-Netatmo was very clear with me - they both (devices) needed to be on the same IP. Perhaps different routers allow coexistence through DHCP, my setup (initially) certainly did not.


I hope this helps you or anyone else, and if I can help any further with this problem, please do not hesitate to ask. Let us know how you get on.


All the best,

Mendip.

TypeC
Posts: 289
Joined: 30 Dec 2014, 21:35

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by TypeC » 18 Feb 2015, 18:27

This appears to have been clarified on another thread.

According to Brieuc (whose comment on this thread started the discussion about assigning the same LAN IP addresses to multiple clients), it is not necessary for the Weather Station and Thermostat to share a LAN IP address, they must simply connect to Netatmo's server from the same WAN IP address (i.e. the single address your router is given from your ISP), which will naturally occur if they are connected to the same router for their Internet connection.

mendip
Posts: 39
Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 10:40

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by mendip » 18 Feb 2015, 19:10

Hi TypeC,


Many thanks for your post and picking up on the other thread - very interesting indeed.,,,,,,

Same public WAN IP for the two devices is specified in my security appliance (firewall) setup, and it didn't / doesn't make a difference i.e. it led to no external temperature displayed. Since the same LAN IP has been allocated to both devices, the system has worked flawlessly, but what you are suggesting (via Brieuc), makes a lot more sense to setup. I was surprised when it was suggested, but it works for me.

The only conclusion I can come to, is that by the same LAN IP, the appliance is literally making the two devices appear identical to Netatmo Servers. From the new post / thread, this is now not strictly required, only same WAN IP, and the NAT tunnels / sessions by definition will be different.

Perhaps by coincidence, I will changing the architecture of the LANs soon, with a new sand-boxed LAN specifically and exclusively for IOT devices, and will try DHCP again then.

However one thing I have learned many times in IT, is 'if it ain't broke - don't fix it', and I am loathsome to tinker with the setup now, as it works fine.

Out of interest and to confirm, do you have both a Weather Station and Thermostat, and do you have the external temperature displayed by merely offering them to the LAN and being allocated DHCP address, both of which are different?


Many thanks in advance,

Mendip.

TypeC
Posts: 289
Joined: 30 Dec 2014, 21:35

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by TypeC » 19 Feb 2015, 00:17

Hi Mendip,

I don't have both, unfortunately, just a Thermostat. I read what Brieuc said and remembered reading this thread some time ago (it stuck with me because I thought at the time how peculiar it was to design the system with this requirement) - I thought it might be worth passing it on. Perhaps I should have re-read the thread and the fact you'd already tried this might have been more apparent!

(Aside: As I don't currently have the weather Station, I'd second the request earlier for the external temperature to be displayed on the Thermostat graphs even when it is obtained from a different source.)

mendip
Posts: 39
Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 10:40

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by mendip » 19 Feb 2015, 10:13

Good Morning TypeC,
Perhaps I should have re-read the thread and the fact you'd already tried this might have been more apparent!
I am not so sure of that. I totally agree with you.There appears to be conflicting advice which you correctly identified.
I thought at the time how peculiar it was to design the system with this requirement
I assumed that the design initial request for IP of each device resulted in different IPs (naturally), they then found each other on the LAN, then adjusted themselves to one of the two IPs given, made broadcasts / packet requests, which then would enter the ARP and NAT tables, and everything would be happy ever after. Indeed this seemed to happen initially on the setup. Thereafter it failed, and I was given advice to set the LAN IPs manually, which has worked. To do this manually is unusual. However by setting the LAN IPs manually, may have masked a forward facing WAN IP issue, thus the symptoms may have been cured, but not the underlying problem - so often the case in IT. :?

It could be something peculiar to my (current) setup, and Brieuc has tailored is advice specifically to my case (for which I am thankful), it could be the device, the LAN switches, the DHCP server, it could be.......

Another thing in IT - there can be a 1000 reasons why each system / setup behaves differently. ;)

I will revert back when more tests are complete on the new LANs.

All the best,

Mendip.

TypeC
Posts: 289
Joined: 30 Dec 2014, 21:35

Re: FEATURE REQUEST:Outdoor temperature also displayed on gr

Post by TypeC » 19 Feb 2015, 11:24

Hi Mendip,

Yes, it is possible that the devices themselves are supposed to adjust to a single IP after normal DHCP allocation. If manual configuration (as you've had to do) is the only way to get this to work, it's hardly a user-friendly, plug and play experience. Many, many users simply won't be able to do this on their own. But perhaps, as you suggest, that might be due to a quirk of your complex-sounding network topology.

What's puzzling me is why this is (or might be) a requirement in any circumstances: it's totally at odds with normal networking practices. My understanding is these are quite dumb devices and all the heavy lifting is done on the server. Once packets have been natted to go out to Netatmo's servers, the LAN IP should be completely masked anyway.

The only thing I can think of is that both devices receive the same packets from the server. So a heartbeat signal from the Thermostat, say, is received by the server, which, in reply, sends a request for data which both devices respond to. But why? Both devices send data very regularly anyway - if you need outside temperature for a thermostat calculation, just use the last reading from a few minutes ago.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone else who's simply plugged them both in and had it work off the bat, especially if they can tell which IP addresses are actually in use. No doubt you'll have some more information once you get your new configuration sorted out.

TypeC

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