Auto Balance Feature

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NeilF
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Sep 2016, 14:26

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by NeilF » 29 Nov 2017, 12:16

flight82 wrote:
mrroboto wrote:This morning i had to remove the valve because when i wake up the room is too cold. It starts heating at 8am exactly when i wake up while the thermostat starts hours before and the rest of the house is perfect. Bad product.
Same problem! The last night -3°C outside and the temperature in one bedroom was lowest the target but the boiler didn't switch on because the thermostat had higher temperature!
A well known problem but...where is NETATMO? Where is the promised update?
I have spent 400 € for rubbish.
So the Valve knew the correct temperature in the room. New it was too low. But didn't open? That sounds almost (alarmingly) like hardware error surely? ie: Seems too simple to be a software error?

I guess the concern is the valve simply isn't "strong" enough to turn the physical radiator valve on/off at times? If that's the case that's worrying as how to you solve that?

What mode you running in? Is it the new Comfort mode? What if you try the old mode where the radiator valves don't do anything more than open/close?
Last edited by NeilF on 29 Nov 2017, 14:02, edited 1 time in total.

karybou
Posts: 81
Joined: 01 Nov 2013, 18:22

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by karybou » 29 Nov 2017, 13:52

I wouldn't worry.
The "problem" or extra feature is probably pretty hard to fix or create, as an "autonomous" stand-by of the valves impacts the overall heating of the house/apartment. Meaning that an all new algorithm has to be created.

Remember that Netatmo has a goal not only in term of comfort but also economy, so the algorithm has to be adjusted pretty neatly to comply with those 2 goals. Otherwise, you might gain into comfort but it could destroy your wallet ...

I will buy one Valve for my bedroom ... but I wait for this function to be implemented.

NeilF
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Sep 2016, 14:26

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by NeilF » 29 Nov 2017, 14:04

karybou wrote:I wouldn't worry.
The "problem" or extra feature is probably pretty hard to fix or create, as an "autonomous" stand-by of the valves impacts the overall heating of the house/apartment. Meaning that an all new algorithm has to be created.

Remember that Netatmo has a goal not only in term of comfort but also economy, so the algorithm has to be adjusted pretty neatly to comply with those 2 goals. Otherwise, you might gain into comfort but it could destroy your wallet ...

I will buy one Valve for my bedroom ... but I wait for this function to be implemented.

Not so sure... If a Valve's goto temp is say 20 degrees and the room is ever less than that, why would it ever be closed? Makes no sense! Yet this is what people are encountering. Almost as if the last time the valve did close, it couldn't then manage to open it again due to a mechanical issue?

karybou
Posts: 81
Joined: 01 Nov 2013, 18:22

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by karybou » 29 Nov 2017, 14:47

NeilF wrote:
karybou wrote:I wouldn't worry.
The "problem" or extra feature is probably pretty hard to fix or create, as an "autonomous" stand-by of the valves impacts the overall heating of the house/apartment. Meaning that an all new algorithm has to be created.

Remember that Netatmo has a goal not only in term of comfort but also economy, so the algorithm has to be adjusted pretty neatly to comply with those 2 goals. Otherwise, you might gain into comfort but it could destroy your wallet ...

I will buy one Valve for my bedroom ... but I wait for this function to be implemented.

Not so sure... If a Valve's goto temp is say 20 degrees and the room is ever less than that, why would it ever be closed? Makes no sense! Yet this is what people are encountering. Almost as if the last time the valve did close, it couldn't then manage to open it again due to a mechanical issue?
When the T° of the main the room where the Thermostat is, has the right T°, it turns the boiler off, right ?

When you own 1 valve, it might be "easy" to create an algorithm but very much more complexe when you have several valves and not overheat the main room or any other room ?

NeilF
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Sep 2016, 14:26

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by NeilF » 29 Nov 2017, 14:55

karybou wrote:
NeilF wrote:
karybou wrote:I wouldn't worry.
The "problem" or extra feature is probably pretty hard to fix or create, as an "autonomous" stand-by of the valves impacts the overall heating of the house/apartment. Meaning that an all new algorithm has to be created.

Remember that Netatmo has a goal not only in term of comfort but also economy, so the algorithm has to be adjusted pretty neatly to comply with those 2 goals. Otherwise, you might gain into comfort but it could destroy your wallet ...

I will buy one Valve for my bedroom ... but I wait for this function to be implemented.

Not so sure... If a Valve's goto temp is say 20 degrees and the room is ever less than that, why would it ever be closed? Makes no sense! Yet this is what people are encountering. Almost as if the last time the valve did close, it couldn't then manage to open it again due to a mechanical issue?
When the T° of the main the room where the Thermostat is, has the right T°, it turns the boiler off, right ?
Depending on mode yes/no I suspect.

But if you look at some of the comments above, people are saying it appears in the morning the heating is coming on, and their Valve on a radiator isn't even opening? Clearly the temperature of that valvue will be well below its designated temperature, so irrespective of what's happening anywhere else the basic logic should obviously be:-

IF VALVE_TEMP < GOAL
THEN OPEN_VALVE
ELSE CLOSE_VALVE

Given the most simplest of logical steps (if temp is below goal, open valve) isn't seemingly happening, there's either a bizarre coding problem, or an obvious mechanical one.

karybou
Posts: 81
Joined: 01 Nov 2013, 18:22

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by karybou » 29 Nov 2017, 14:57

Ok, so there is a problem there.

mrroboto
Posts: 21
Joined: 27 Nov 2016, 14:27

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by mrroboto » 29 Nov 2017, 15:04

The problem is not the valve itself but that there is no predictive pre warming feature like the thermostat. it works like hysteresis. It's a software problem not hardware.

NeilF
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Sep 2016, 14:26

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by NeilF » 29 Nov 2017, 15:08

mrroboto wrote:The problem is not the valve itself but that there is no predictive pre warming feature like the thermostat. it works like hysteresis. It's a software problem not hardware.
If you say so...

To me, if a Valve knows it needs the room to be 20 degrees, and the room is significantly less than that, and is closed, that seems a bizarre bit of coding in the software IMHO. Especially if the Thermostat is heating the house too!

menn0
Posts: 3
Joined: 29 Nov 2017, 22:10

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by menn0 » 29 Nov 2017, 22:29

I cannot believen what I read here, I just bought this stuff having waited for black friday.
But now I read it cannot do at all what is promised about keeping all rooms at a prefered temperature!
I have a bedroom upstairs which is always way colder than the rest of the house, it gets easely as low as 14 while I dont want it to drop below 17.
Now I thought this product would help me, and put some valves around the house, and than the bedroom would give a sign to the relay and the relay to the boiler. Which apparantly isnt so.
The only thing part that can actually control the boiler is the thermostat.
This must be a joke?! I ll return this product on Friday, especially now I read that this core/right of existence/ minimal viable feature was already promised late September in a coulpe of days. Tado here I come.

NeilF
Posts: 56
Joined: 30 Sep 2016, 14:26

Re: Auto Balance Feature

Post by NeilF » 29 Nov 2017, 22:56

menn0 wrote:I cannot believen what I read here, I just bought this stuff having waited for black friday.
But now I read it cannot do at all what is promised about keeping all rooms at a prefered temperature!
I have a bedroom upstairs which is always way colder than the rest of the house, it gets easely as low as 14 while I dont want it to drop below 17.
Now I thought this product would help me, and put some valves around the house, and than the bedroom would give a sign to the relay and the relay to the boiler. Which apparantly isnt so.
The only thing part that can actually control the boiler is the thermostat.
This must be a joke?! I ll return this product on Friday, especially now I read that this core/right of existence/ minimal viable feature was already promised late September in a coulpe of days. Tado here I come.
TBH, if you misunderstood the product then that's not the products fault? How was a Valve all by itself going to tell your thermostat and boiler to stay on? As you said, "The only thing part that can actually control the boiler is the thermostat."

Now if that was the associated Netatmo thermostat then it could do what you're asking. ie: If the thermostat says the temperature where it is is too low, or the valve on a radiator elsewhere in the house says the termperature is too low, turn the heating on. But just a valve on a radiator? No!

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