Video Quality

Tips, tricks and frequently asked questions
Una Real
Posts: 304
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Video Quality

Post by Una Real » 29 Jan 2017, 13:08

There were hints here from Netatmo that video quality was not a priority. They did mention the possibility of addressing it in future firmware. But, at the same time, they cautioned video quality is not the only consideration when looking at the entirety of the product and that various compromises need to be made. I'm paraphrasing here.

I’m not among those bitterly complaining about poor quality. It’s okay with me if it doesn’t get any better. It’s really not a deal breaker for me. That said, what upsets me are the marketing claims Netatmo makes for the Presence recorded video. It is marketing hyperbole taken to its extreme. And in my opinion borders on fraudulent. They may be saved by most people probably viewing on small smartphone screens; where the lack of quality is less noticeable. Plus, perceived quality of video tends to be a highly subjective thing. I know plenty of people who don't see any difference between DVD video and Blu-ray. So in the grand scheme of things, increasing the quality of the video is probably far less important than the things they've allegedly fixed with this update. Besides, if they increased the bitrate to improve quality to the point of being truly excellent, they'd need to include a 16GB card (as originally planned). ;)

jueti
Posts: 79
Joined: 29 Dec 2016, 21:51

Re: Video Quality

Post by jueti » 29 Jan 2017, 13:31

I agree on your comments that perceived video quality is subjective and that most users might check their clips on smartphones.

However you might want to use the recorded video in case someone really has broken into your house and you can possibly identify him as the camera has recorded it. The captured video shall be good enough to do that, and here we are back into the comparison of Netatmo's hyperbole marketing and reality.

Of course an average 3 mbit/s MPEG-2 transport stream will deliver only low quality. You can improve video quality by using a more effective video codec, like m4v, mkv and others. You can run higher bitrates with software compression and still have video files resulting in similar sizes like the current MPEG TS-streams. And it could be done by firmware update. But it needs software engineers with know-how on video compression technology.

The argument of having to buy a larger sized SD card on my own expense is not so valid IMO. Prices for those are low, and I would invest that if just the camera would give me the option to have a better video quality. Already now the screen gives you an information that 1080p will upload slower than 720p.
You could easily embed a "warning" like "choose this XX compression for superior video quality but you may need to exchange the supplied SD card with a larger one at your own expense".
then it it up to everyone's own decision if you opt for quality or budget, and these discussions here can be closed.

(in the end it's the same with each digital still camera, they come with an SD card at given size, and once you go to BEST quality setting you will easily need a larger one ...)

Slim
Posts: 120
Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 18:54

Re: Video Quality

Post by Slim » 29 Jan 2017, 15:01

Agree...but as the current "settings" is now, the live video is useless. The lag, random pauses and pixel size makes it more like a toy cam!

Anyway...can someone link too a better SD card which do work? I'd like too try that before I'll return this cam ;)
Proud owner of Netatmo weather station, rain and wind gauge.
Also...I guess I'm a involuntary Presence beta tester. Two of them :)

Tiamat1701
Posts: 55
Joined: 24 Nov 2016, 02:06

Re: Video Quality

Post by Tiamat1701 » 29 Jan 2017, 15:50

I am using this one by Sandisk and it works fine:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6820173108

Una Real
Posts: 304
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Video Quality

Post by Una Real » 29 Jan 2017, 15:51

As far as I can tell, Netatmo is using H.264 MPEG-4. And that should certainly be capable of much better results than we're seeing. It is hobbled by the relatively low bitrate.

I agree the recorded video should be of sufficient quality to be useful in a court case, etc. That's an excellent point. And if one were to need to zoom in to any degree in order to make a positive identification, the current video quality would make it virtually useless in that regard. Or even to pull the numbers off a license plate.

My point about the card has always been that I strongly suspect Netatmo was originally using a 16GB card and that's what was in the units that were reviewed on many sites. And I also suspect they were at that point using a higher bitrate. Which is why many reviewers commented about the "excellent" video quality. It may have even been what led the marketing people to make the "excellent"and "stunning" claims. Which would have still probably been hyperbole, but maybe closer to the truth than what we see now. Then for whatever reason, they decided to go with only an 8GB card in the final product and needed to lower the bitrate so that enough video would fit on the card to prevent customer complaints about it not holding enough. And also that the timeline wouldn't be too short. Only thing was, they forgot to change the US website specs on what size card was included. Opps. And the marketing claims were left as they were. After all, it's expensive to change things like that. And it sounded so good! Of course, this is all just pure speculation on my part.

Una Real
Posts: 304
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Video Quality

Post by Una Real » 29 Jan 2017, 15:52

Tiamat1701 wrote:I am using this one by Sandisk and it works fine:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6820173108
Am using the same card with good results.

Slim
Posts: 120
Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 18:54

Re: Video Quality

Post by Slim » 29 Jan 2017, 16:41

Ok

I'd just ordered Kingston’s Industrial Temperature microSD UHS-I
It has an operating temperature rating of -40°C to 85°C, making it suitable for harsh environments.

This card is way OP for the Presence, and I'm getting this for testing purposes only ;)

https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Digital ... B01DOFCL3G
Proud owner of Netatmo weather station, rain and wind gauge.
Also...I guess I'm a involuntary Presence beta tester. Two of them :)

Tiamat1701
Posts: 55
Joined: 24 Nov 2016, 02:06

Re: Video Quality

Post by Tiamat1701 » 29 Jan 2017, 20:32

Yeah similar to Sandisk's "Proof" card which ironically has a lower warranty period than their standard cards:

https://www.sandisk.com/about/proof
https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-car ... ce-microsd

The Kingston's have faster transfer speeds than the Sandisk.

jueti
Posts: 79
Joined: 29 Dec 2016, 21:51

Re: Video Quality

Post by jueti » 29 Jan 2017, 22:49

Pls. keep us in the loop about your experiences and judgements once you have installed those SD cards.

Thanks !

jueti
Posts: 79
Joined: 29 Dec 2016, 21:51

Re: Video Quality

Post by jueti » 30 Jan 2017, 20:49

Interesting read in the Welcome camera forum where also many quality issues are being discussed. Next to disconnects the poor customer service is a topic there as well:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7743

What Padster writes in post #10 is a good option we shall consider when it comes to forcing Netatmo into actions for improving video quality of Presence and other issues:

"Their treatment of customers is a disgrace.

I have started writing to tech writers who have reviewed their products such as Andrew Gebhart at CNET. I tell them the flaws in the products and how Netatmo provide no support at all often completely ignoring requests for help. I point them to this forum and the customer reviews on sites like Amazon. The responses have been positive with most stating they would take this into consideration when reviewing in the future.

I'm now in the process of collecting email addresses for the likes of;
Fred Potter
Jean-Pierre Dumolard

Also email addresses of some of their investors such as;

Fredric Le Brun
Guillaume Meulle
Olivier Huez.

Perhaps Netatmo doesn't care about the customers but maybe their investors will.

I have a Nest thermostat and on the couple of times I've needed support I've had a reply within 1 hour. I have also had the technical manager phone me from the states. That is customer service."

Thank you Padster !

Post Reply

Return to “General questions”