Not Suitable for Live Monitor

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Una Real
Posts: 305
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Una Real » 18 Dec 2016, 17:40

Probably thought this was going to be about the 10 second lag, right? It's not. Because that's a well-known thing with Presence.

This is about the progressively increasing time lag which occurs as the live view is left continuously on. Now, I can't say for sure whether this was always the case with my unit since first put into operation 10 days ago. Because what I'd do was check for lag time right after hitting play for the live view. And, sure enough, it was always around 10 seconds. So didn't really pay close attention afterwards.

Every once in awhile I'd notice that the live view would get suspended and the loading animation would play until I clicked into another video, but then returning to the live view—I could click play and live view would resume.

But then I started using live view while looking at the scene in-person for longer periods of time. And I noticed that what I was seeing and what the camera was monitoring in the live view had no relation to each other in terms of what was happening. I don't mean they seemed just a little out of sync - we're talking about well over a minute before what I saw happening out my window and on the live view could be reconciled. So I decided to pay closer attention to what was happening over time.

I found that the longest I could test for lag was between 15.5 and 15.75 minutes of continuous live view. This was because the unit would consistently suspend live view at that point. And then, once renewed, the lag would start again at around 10 seconds. Only to progressively get worse until live view was once again suspended—starting the process all over again. This is very repeatable behavior. I tested it 4 times with the same results.

I closely watched the live view continuously for the entire testing and never perceived any change in either the quality of the video or the framerate. The video did not appear to be slowing down—the lag time was simply increasing.

So here's basically how the lag progression proceeds. It varied somewhat from test-to-test and these are approximate, but give you the idea:
To start = 10 sec
2 min = 16 sec
3.5 min = 26 sec
4.5 min = 33 sec
6.5 min = 43 sec
8.0 min = 50 sec
9.5 min = 58 sec
10.0 min = 1 min 6 sec
13.0 min = 1 min 22 sec
14.0 min = 1 min 26

Don't know what the lag is past 14 min because there's no way to tell because the live view suspends before you can see the stream catch up with benchmark objects.

Note: I consistently measure Wi-Fi at around 26 Mbps outside at the camera, and have never seen less than full bars for the signal in the Security app.

Conclusion: My particular Presence unit with the way it is set up is not suitable for use as a live monitor.

Anyone else notice something similar? Or am I the only derelict with enough time on my hands to actually mess around with this? :lol:

kiboost
Posts: 596
Joined: 21 Jun 2013, 09:27

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by kiboost » 18 Dec 2016, 20:27

Interesting finding, but seriously, I think there is lot better options for continuous live monitoring.
I don't think Presence was design for that, with 10sec delay to start with. There is some HLS solution with 200ms delay, this is real live.

You should put your numbers in a graph... Dunno if it's linear, maybe 24fps played at 25 with 1frame dropped per second, making 1/25s delay every second...
php-simpleNetatmoAPI Simple to use php API based on official API.

Una Real
Posts: 305
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Una Real » 18 Dec 2016, 20:46

Yes, I am not good with numbers so finding specific mathematical relationships is not for me. All I know is Netatmo says "Use live stream to view your property in real-time." And even the 10 second lag is a stretch to fit the definition of real-time.

Real-time is what you see on the LCD screen of your smartphone while shooting a video of your kid's birthday party. Try doing that with a 10 second lag. Now imagine a one minute lag.

If the Presence wasn't designed for real-time monitoring Netatmo shouldn't be making the claim it has that capability. Especially if the real-time becomes ridiculously lagging the longer you watch it.

When the phrase "Use live stream to view your property in real-time." is used, it can easily lead a potential buyer to take it literally and believe it's actually possible. It is not. Maybe a 10 second lag can be overlooked, if one is generous. But stretching that to over a minute lag within 15 minutes of continuous live streaming is ludicrous in terms of real-time.

kiboost
Posts: 596
Joined: 21 Jun 2013, 09:27

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by kiboost » 18 Dec 2016, 21:38

I totally agree about live, this 10sec delay is a lie. They are working on it, but I would not wait for drastic enhancement maybe due to design limits from start.
I was more talking about live monitoring (long times)
Last edited by kiboost on 18 Dec 2016, 22:25, edited 1 time in total.
php-simpleNetatmoAPI Simple to use php API based on official API.

Una Real
Posts: 305
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Una Real » 18 Dec 2016, 22:00

Don't intend to be argumentative. But I suppose it depends on what one considers to be a long time. If someone starts the Presence with the idea of viewing their property in real-time, and then gets distracted—maybe walks out of the room—I don't think they'd expect the "real-time" to be more than a minute behind when they returned a mere 15 minutes later. But maybe that's just me.

I am open to the idea that maybe this is not normal and it's just my particular unit that can't carry a continuous live stream for more than 15 minutes or so, and also exhibits this kind of lag over time.
Last edited by Una Real on 18 Dec 2016, 22:04, edited 1 time in total.

Slim
Posts: 120
Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 18:54

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Slim » 18 Dec 2016, 22:04

Netatmo hompage:

"Ultra-precise alerts let you know instantly about what happens outside your home"

....eeeh...right :?
Proud owner of Netatmo weather station, rain and wind gauge.
Also...I guess I'm a involuntary Presence beta tester. Two of them :)

Una Real
Posts: 305
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Una Real » 18 Dec 2016, 22:08

I've always been willing to look the other way about the 10 second lag time. But this recent discovery of progressively increasing time lag is disturbing.

Slim
Posts: 120
Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 18:54

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Slim » 18 Dec 2016, 22:16

Una Real wrote:I've always been willing to look the other way about the 10 second lag time. But this recent discovery of progressively increasing time lag is disturbing.

Agree. I'm going to do this lag test on my own cam tomorrow.
Proud owner of Netatmo weather station, rain and wind gauge.
Also...I guess I'm a involuntary Presence beta tester. Two of them :)

Una Real
Posts: 305
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 23:16

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Una Real » 18 Dec 2016, 22:25

Slim wrote:Agree. I'm going to do this lag test on my own cam tomorrow.
Will be interested to hear your results.

Slim
Posts: 120
Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 18:54

Re: Not Suitable for Live Monitor

Post by Slim » 18 Dec 2016, 23:23

Just did a quick test by swiching my outdoor light on/off while watching the live video and the lag increase is noticeable after just one minute. 13 sec delay.
Not so impressed by this "feature" netatmo :cry:
Proud owner of Netatmo weather station, rain and wind gauge.
Also...I guess I'm a involuntary Presence beta tester. Two of them :)

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