Valves not closed

Ric75
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Nov 2017, 14:40

Valves not closed

Post by Ric75 » 09 Nov 2018, 16:15

I have the same issue that was solved last year by the firmware in november 17' :cry:

6.02am : Kitchen radiator valve is below the setpoint of 22C@6.45am and turn on the heating correctly in the kitchen ( I have comfort option + anticipation enabled on all valves with last firmware 189/69/66) .
kitchen.png
kitchen
All the other 6 rooms with valves on radiators are above their setpoint and do not need heating, but all the rooms radiators, except the room with thermostat, start heating .
I don't know if these rooms valves are already open when heating starts at 6.02am or if the rele sends them a command to open)

In the charts there is no need to heath other rooms but the temperature increases and there is no heating power percentage column.
bedroom.png
BEdroom and all other rooms the same
Thermostat room with valve.png
Thermostat room with one radiator valve
Calibration does not solve the issue. I tested it this week and the issue is not solved by calibration.

Please check this new firmware why this old bug appeared again.

schmaker
Posts: 48
Joined: 11 Oct 2018, 18:04

Re: Valves not closed

Post by schmaker » 10 Nov 2018, 09:21

Just an idea .. isnt your mechanical valves "push to open" instead of "push to close"?

KDpt
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Nov 2018, 11:01

Re: Valves not closed

Post by KDpt » 10 Nov 2018, 11:47

Hi, I renewed all my downstair Rad valve bodies yesterday and they
are all "push to close". You get a screw cap to put on valve to shut
off the water flow through the valve.

( Changed to Peglar Terrier TRV Valve Bodies anyone interested, the
Rad stem is about 10mm longer than the old ones that use an allen
key, the new stems have flats for a spanner)

basil
Posts: 50
Joined: 05 Apr 2018, 19:21

Re: Valves not closed

Post by basil » 10 Nov 2018, 12:26

I have the same issue that was solved last year by the firmware in november 17'

Are you saying that you had this before and your problem was solved, or that your problem is similar to the one which was solved? Also a question: Is this a new, or an existing (i.e. previously working) Netatmo installation?

I ask because a defective valve body would cause a similar graph (I have one, it's on the job list for replacement). Installing Netatmo [or any] smart valves uncovered (at least for me) some anomalies with an existing heating system (especially an old one) since before there was no absolute measure or record of operation with standard TRV's, hence a non-closing valve was not spotted. I my case I found 4.

However, it's unlikely a number of valves would go faulty at once, so if this is an existing Netamo installation, then the fault is probably not with the valve bodies.

Ric75
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Nov 2017, 14:40

Re: Valves not closed

Post by Ric75 » 10 Nov 2018, 15:07

schmaker wrote:Just an idea .. isnt your mechanical valves "push to open" instead of "push to close"?
I don't know if it's push to close or not but it was working fine for one year since firmware release 160in November until april when I turned off the heating..

These are my valves and old actuators http://wattswater.it/upload/iblock/eda/ ... 8_Rev4.pdf : model 148+130
now after 6 months of heating turned off, 5 valves over 7 have this issue again as before firmware 160.
https://forum.netatmo.com/viewtopic.php?p=50742#p50742
I think netatmo actuator does not close completely the radiator valve anymore but it leaves a 10% open , radiators do not become very hot.
I run calibration but it does not solve the problem.

The only 2 valves working fine ( they are not open when other rooms need heating) it's the kitchen one where I changed the batteries last week (it's the farest from rele) and the room where there is the thermostat too.

all other radiator starts heating when not needed ( when one of the 7 room needs heating ).

I will try to change batteries to all other actuators too to check if resetting them solve it (even if batteries are over 50-75%).
Last edited by Ric75 on 10 Nov 2018, 15:17, edited 2 times in total.

Ric75
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Nov 2017, 14:40

Re: Valves not closed

Post by Ric75 » 10 Nov 2018, 15:15

basil wrote:
I have the same issue that was solved last year by the firmware in november 17'

Are you saying that you had this before and your problem was solved, or that your problem is similar to the one which was solved? Also a question: Is this a new, or an existing (i.e. previously working) Netatmo installation?

I ask because a defective valve body would cause a similar graph (I have one, it's on the job list for replacement). Installing Netatmo [or any] smart valves uncovered (at least for me) some anomalies with an existing heating system (especially an old one) since before there was no absolute measure or record of operation with standard TRV's, hence a non-closing valve was not spotted. I my case I found 4.

However, it's unlikely a number of valves would go faulty at once, so if this is an existing Netamo installation, then the fault is probably not with the valve bodies.
I had this problem ( and not only me if you see link above and other posts from last year). This issue was solved by firmware 160 ( I had it in test before released after some PM with Brieuc) . My radiators were previously working fine until april, so I assume that NEtatmo previous firmware understood in the correct way my radiator valves logic and calibration of the pin.
Now with new firmware pushed in October I have again this issue, so I assume it's the new firmware applied to my actuators.

basil
Posts: 50
Joined: 05 Apr 2018, 19:21

Re: Valves not closed

Post by basil » 10 Nov 2018, 15:48

Thanks for clarifying. sorry if I misunderstood.

One other 'mechanical' test idea; do you have a 'decorators cap' for your valves? If push to close then this screws on to replace the Netatmo/TRV body and will fully close the valve, this will show for sure if the valve is leaking and is how i located my faulty valves. I guess push to open would use the opposite technique. IMHO most valves are push to close.

Assuming same firmware on all valves (Firmware updates seem to be all over the place at the moment!) this must be something that is affected by other variables, I have the same firmware which seems to be operating OK on 8 radiators.

Just a thought, it may be worth testing to check that the valves are closing/opening on command. Try manually raising/lowering the temperature above and below the existing set point, you should hear the valve open/close accordingly. Then try this on another valve whilst listening to a 'faulty' one. you should not hear the 'faulty' valve operate of course (other than to close perhaps).
The next step would be to reproduce these tests using a schedule.

I realise its time consuming, but suggest its best to fully eliminate the valve bodies and to have a set of basic tests and results that you can then use to report the fault to Netatmo.

Ric75
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Nov 2017, 14:40

Re: Valves not closed

Post by Ric75 » 11 Nov 2018, 01:22

I've just read the french forum (using translator). there are other posts with my same issue after firmware update. There are other firmware in tests still not released (190....194) trying to solve the issue.
It seems that randomly the actuator does not close completely the valve. I hear a very short motor movement in my radiator. too short to close the valve completely.

Brieuc could you please post here in english if the suggested solution in this thread https://forum.netatmo.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=20 could be applied to my case or should I wait for new firmware?
I've opened a ticket in the meantime.

Ric75
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Nov 2017, 14:40

Re: Valves not closed

Post by Ric75 » 11 Nov 2018, 22:05

Just upgraded the rele by myself using the wizard to v193. I will wait 1-2 days to let valves and thermostat be upgraded too and then I will test again the valves and report here if the bug has been solved.

basil
Posts: 50
Joined: 05 Apr 2018, 19:21

Re: Valves not closed

Post by basil » 15 Nov 2018, 10:49

Thanks Ric75, it will be interesting to know.

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