Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Sn00thy
Posts: 8
Joined: 09 Oct 2017, 12:24

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by Sn00thy » 09 Oct 2017, 12:31

Hi!
Does the thermostat send a regular on/off signal to the valves out of heating season so there's no chance for the valve's pin to get stuck?
Thank you!

tuxbox
Posts: 45
Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 08:45

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by tuxbox » 16 Oct 2017, 08:10

Would be nice. E.g. on the eq3-Max valves you can even set on what time (once per week) the valves get triggered to not get stuck when not used.
So this would be really nice not to loose this feature when turning all my heaters to the netatmo smart valves.

Any news by the way on the ahead topic here on the update for turning on the boiler?

Fa_St
Posts: 60
Joined: 11 Jul 2017, 14:40

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by Fa_St » 16 Oct 2017, 09:43

tuxbox wrote: Any news by the way on the ahead topic here on the update for turning on the boiler?
No news...
Such a pity.
Netatmo lost an opportunity to complete my plant with their valves.
I hope to hear some comment from customer service and forum administrators

HarryS
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Oct 2017, 09:00

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by HarryS » 18 Oct 2017, 09:26

I'd like to add in another flavor of this scenario. As for many other who raised this topic, I want to have the bathroom heated even if the Thermostat measures a value above the plan value. The proposed solution to allow Smart Valves to trigger heating is fine as long as you have additional Smart Valves in the main (Thermostat) room that throttle heating here. Otherwise heating the bath will heat the main room too - which is a waste of energy.

This is where the additional flavor is coming in: my scenario is one with a central heating/boiler the Thermostat / Relay does not turn on and off directly. Instead, the Relay just operates a value which turns on floor heating for the whole ground level. No option to add a smart value here (the named valve is in a separate room).

So besides the option to allow Smart Valves to trigger the Relay, I'd like to see three options:

- Smart Valve cannot trigger Thermostat / Relay (as is)
- Smart Valve triggers Termostat / Relay if heating is required (committed solution)
- Smart Value simple opens circulation when required in a room

The last one is exactly what all Smart Valves *and* the Thermostat / Relay should do in a central heating / boiler scenario - the situation you have e.g. in a flat in a big house in Europe (and probably around the world) where one big boiler is installed for multiple flats.

I can images a "Relay controls boiler" / "Relay controls valve" option for a "House" (or flat) definition would be the more general solution allowing global optimization.

Thanks!

- Harald

whnagel
Posts: 83
Joined: 24 Nov 2014, 14:00

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by whnagel » 18 Oct 2017, 18:06

Hi Harald,
No need for a 3rd option
my experience with smart valve is:
If any smart valve needs heating the smart valve is “open” in the today’s firmware version!
But if no hot water is circulating because the thermostat room has its temperature already, you have to wait until temperature drops in the thermostat room to get hot water circulating in the pipes. That is why we need the new 2nd option.
I think in your case hot water is always circulating. Then you are fine with the today’s firmware.
Werner
1. Zone1 R. 70:ee:50:24:17:6a (182) with Therm.(68) + 1 valve(61) in T-room + 2 rooms with 1 valve(61) each.
2. Zone2 R. 70:er:50:0b:2f:bc (182) with Therm.(68) and 2 valve(61) in T-room.

3. other house R. 70:ee:50:06:ec:42 (182) with Therm. (68)

Fa_St
Posts: 60
Joined: 11 Jul 2017, 14:40

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by Fa_St » 18 Oct 2017, 21:03

whnagel wrote:Hi Harald,
No need for a 3rd option
my experience with smart valve is:
If any smart valve needs heating the smart valve is “open” in the today’s firmware version!
But if no hot water is circulating because the thermostat room has its temperature already, you have to wait until temperature drops in the thermostat room to get hot water circulating in the pipes. That is why we need the new 2nd option.
I think in your case hot water is always circulating. Then you are fine with the today’s firmware.
Werner
Yes I agree.
Another question is: how the PID function can elaborate properly the datas from the house thermal characteristic if the valves request heating and nothing happen?
Is Netatmo think to save hour money by switching off heating ?
If we loose this function of netatmo system what is the sense to waste money?

whnagel
Posts: 83
Joined: 24 Nov 2014, 14:00

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by whnagel » 18 Oct 2017, 23:00

Netatmo when will be the new option available?
I am tired to wake up every day at 4 am to manually boost my valve in the bathroom to get the desired temperature at 7am!!!!!!!!!!
If it gets colder I have to overheat the room with the thermostat
1. Zone1 R. 70:ee:50:24:17:6a (182) with Therm.(68) + 1 valve(61) in T-room + 2 rooms with 1 valve(61) each.
2. Zone2 R. 70:er:50:0b:2f:bc (182) with Therm.(68) and 2 valve(61) in T-room.

3. other house R. 70:ee:50:06:ec:42 (182) with Therm. (68)

HarryS
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Oct 2017, 09:00

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by HarryS » 19 Oct 2017, 00:36

whnagel wrote:Hi Harald,
No need for a 3rd option
my experience with smart valve is:
If any smart valve needs heating the smart valve is “open” in the today’s firmware version!
But if no hot water is circulating because the thermostat room has its temperature already, you have to wait until temperature drops in the thermostat room to get hot water circulating in the pipes. That is why we need the new 2nd option.
I think in your case hot water is always circulating. Then you are fine with the today’s firmware.
Werner
I had this hope, but it turned out to work only one direction. This is what I observed:

Plan for both bath and thermostat is 16 degree at night. In the morning, at 7am, the plan temperature for the bathroom is 26 degree (I like that) and 21 for the thermostat. Two days ago, we had a warm night. Temperature dropped to 21.1 degree. So at 7am, the thermostat had an actual above plan and the bath valve had an actual below plan. From the night, both were “closed”. An both didn’t change at 7am! For the thermostat, this is as expected, for the valve it is not. I raised plan temperature to 21.5 for the thermostat... A few seconds later, both(!) the thermostat and the valve opened. The other way around, it worked... I dropped plan temperature back to 21 for the thermostat. The thermostat closed, but the valve didn’t this time! My theory is that movements for the valve or optimized to not drain battery...

And please do not forget what must happen once smart valves are allowed to trigger heating! Once the valve opens, it needs to trigger the relay to start the boiler (provided the standard assumption “a boiler is controlled” is set).

I’m aware we can use existing patterns to work around the system to achieve what we want. But if Netatmo adds another setting now, I believe it should be done correctly and in a way users can understand what they are doing. Please assume we’d get only one new setting (relay controls boiler vs controls valve of a central heating). With only this setting, the thermostat should open if it controls the boiler and a smart valve opens. In case it handles a valve only (central heating), it should open only in case the actual temperature is below plan for the Thermostat. The smart valve should always open and close depending on its local plan / actual.

Does this make sense?

Harald

PS. The description is probably over complicated. It is hard to describe for a non native speaker, I’m sorry :-)

HarryS
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Oct 2017, 09:00

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by HarryS » 19 Oct 2017, 00:40

whnagel wrote:Netatmo when will be the new option available?
I am tired to wake up every day at 4 am to manually boost my valve in the bathroom to get the desired temperature at 7am!!!!!!!!!!
If it gets colder I have to overheat the room with the thermostat
I understand they committed “this month” (October). I think this type of change is quite critical and needs good testing to not kill operation for thousands of users. Furthermore they need to change firmware for smart valve and thermostat / relay plus the apps. For iOS they need to go through Apple’s approval in addition. I think the initial “few days” were a bit too optimistic... ;-)

Harald

Fa_St
Posts: 60
Joined: 11 Jul 2017, 14:40

Re: Netatmo Smart Radiator Valves

Post by Fa_St » 19 Oct 2017, 00:54

HarryS wrote:
whnagel wrote:Furthermore they need to change firmware for smart valve and thermostat / relay plus the apps. For iOS they need to go through Apple’s approval in addition. I think the initial “few days” were a bit too optimistic... ;-)

Harald
For my opinion is not necessary .
Only thermostat firmware have to be change.
The key is to not make a difference from the command of manual increase of temperature from the valves (boost mode that can switch on the boiler right now) and the call from valves cause temperature under the set or for program increases.

So everytime you see an orange line on the graph of the valves the boiler have to switch on. Very simple!

The problem is that netatmo want to create a choise from two setup and so they have to change all, even the app. (...if they really want to do something for solve the problem).

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