Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron) - EDIT: incompatible

You need some help attaching the thermostat to your specific boiler. This way please !
Rakdos
Posts: 14
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 11:12

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by Rakdos » 18 May 2020, 17:42

Hi again !

I’m installing it up but I’m facing an issue. The suggested setup says to put the black wire to “2” but it’a the power network.

Only the grey is linked to “3” but the black should be set on “4”, shouldn’t it ?
And to make it work, I have to remove the bridge between “3” and “4”.

That way, the NetAtmo will be able to drive 3 (enable) alone and 4 (pumps) alone as well, right ?
Unless you suggest to put the black to the power itself to keep it plugged and make NetAtmo ignore it ? I don’t understand the purpose here. Yet I understand the grey driving the 2 others options.

I’m afraid that NetAtmo tries to send data on the black wire (which is linked to the power network) creating a major issue on the main regulator.

GEORGzer
Posts: 1137
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by GEORGzer » 18 May 2020, 18:00

The Relais can‘t give out any power on the black or grey wires, they are internally not connected to the other two.
All the Relais does is opening and closing the contact between the back and the grey wire.

So you want to achieve that the Netatmo Thermostat/Relais can start/stop „3“ and „4“.
„3“ and „4“ are connected so they „go live“ together and you have to keep it that way.

Originally „3“ was also connected to „2“ (live wire) to power „3“ and therefore „4“ as well. They did that consecutively, but connecting „3“ and „4“ directly to „2“ would have had the same effect.
You now must wire the Relais „between“ „2“ and „3“ so it can control „3“ and again therefore „4“ as well.

If you do as said before, power will go from the live wire „2“ to the Relais through the black wire and when the Relais activates, that power will go back through the grey wire to „3“ and „4“.


If „2“ can‘t house 3 wires, you must use a terminal to wire all together and connect it to „2“.
Home:
Weather Station (3rd Generation + Rain Gauge, Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules)
2 Valves + Relais (Starter Pack), 5 additional Valves

Office:
Thermostat + Relais (2nd Generation)
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Rakdos
Posts: 14
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 11:12

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by Rakdos » 18 May 2020, 21:58

Thank you for your fast reply. I finished setting up the setup.

I've ran some test yet and even if I say to NetAtmo "Heat the room up" the regulator does not activate the pump for the heating circuit but it receives the information to run (otherwise it's in "away" mode thanks to the wiring setup).
I'm thinking to set the wire setup as it was (with dual bridge between 2-3 and 3-4) while placing the black to 2 and the grey to one of the heating circuit (I have 2 distincts circuit) : 8 or 9. That way it may start the pump to heat the room up.

My guess is that the "4" (pumps) is for every pumps in every circuits. The documentation is not really helpful to understand the purpose of this one.

I've set a new planning to NetAtmo (30°C tonight) and will see how it goes but I'm pretty sure nothing will happen. I will try the other setup tomorrow and post here the result.

GEORGzer
Posts: 1137
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by GEORGzer » 18 May 2020, 22:17

thank you for your feedback 😉
Home:
Weather Station (3rd Generation + Rain Gauge, Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules)
2 Valves + Relais (Starter Pack), 5 additional Valves

Office:
Thermostat + Relais (2nd Generation)
Healthy Home Coach
Smart Smoke Alarm

Rakdos
Posts: 14
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 11:12

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by Rakdos » 19 May 2020, 14:54

And here is the result, it works as expected but it may create a huge issue in the regulator.

The main reason is because the regulator drives the pumps state (ON-OFF) according to several temperature sensors (I've seen 10 of them per circuit). If I plug the grey wire (from the relais) into this slot it may create a short circuit in the regulator and break it (eg the regulator is sending no voltage but netatmo is sending high voltage).
For this reason, I decided to remove wire from the heating pump circuit from the regulator and I could drive pumps as expected but the regulator monitor the lost of communication over the heating pump circuit and become in "issue state". In the mean time I hear (electric) relays in the regulator trying to switch one way to the other.

A maintenance company will check the heating pump (annual maintenance) this Friday and I will ask him (or her) any advice/tip to plug it correctly but I'm afraid that dry contact is not enough in my case (NetAtmo ON-OFF solution). Even if I have the possibility to do it, it may be insuffisent : each heating circuit has 1 water mixer and I must drive them accordingly with the requested temperature and so on.
Really complex setup after all.

GEORGzer
Posts: 1137
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by GEORGzer » 19 May 2020, 16:15

Rakdos wrote:
19 May 2020, 14:54
If I plug the grey wire (from the relais) into this slot it may create a short circuit in the regulator and break it (eg the regulator is sending no voltage but Netatmo is sending high voltage).
As I said before, the Netatmo Relais‘ grey wire doesn‘t send out anything else than what you „feed it“ over the black wire. So if you replace an existing bridge wire with the black/grey combo, nothing changes voltage-wise.

But I agree, yours is a complex setup and the Netatmo Thermostat isn‘t meant to be installed like that on a heating pump in the first place.
Home:
Weather Station (3rd Generation + Rain Gauge, Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules)
2 Valves + Relais (Starter Pack), 5 additional Valves

Office:
Thermostat + Relais (2nd Generation)
Healthy Home Coach
Smart Smoke Alarm

Rakdos
Posts: 14
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 11:12

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by Rakdos » 22 May 2020, 15:00

GEORGzer wrote:
19 May 2020, 16:15
Rakdos wrote:
19 May 2020, 14:54
If I plug the grey wire (from the relais) into this slot it may create a short circuit in the regulator and break it (eg the regulator is sending no voltage but Netatmo is sending high voltage).
As I said before, the Netatmo Relais‘ grey wire doesn‘t send out anything else than what you „feed it“ over the black wire. So if you replace an existing bridge wire with the black/grey combo, nothing changes voltage-wise.
The fact is that WPMII is also feeding and relies on used voltage to know if there is a system failure or not.
If I remove the wire from the WPMII, it will say "System failure". If I put the NetAtmo in the same slot and send (through the black wire) high voltage while WPMII is sending none it will break the WPM.

By the way, I had a talk with the maintenance guy who explained everything and in detail and unfortunatly it's not possible to use 1 NetAtmo to drive even 1 heating circuit. This brand doesn't allow to put other device in it.
He confirmed that I would need at least 2 NetAtmo and 3 to 4 other relays to send other information over (mixer and other components) and still, it won't be enough because the WPM will be in "System Failure".

Actually, the heat pump heats the heat circuit up with 3 specific sensors :
  • Outside temperature
  • Inside temperature (FE7 command block)
  • Target temperature (for inside)
Even if the target temperature is higher that the inside one it may not heat the circuit up.

That's why I returned back my NetAtmo, my heating circuit is way too complexe for only 1 relay. Even the brand's solution is not compatible with my current setup (I'm missing some sensor) and the solution is, to be honest, too expensive.

GEORGzer
Posts: 1137
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Attaching on WPMWII (Stiebel Eltron)

Post by GEORGzer » 22 May 2020, 15:41

Makes sense that you returned it as your system is clearly not suited for this type of installation.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
Rakdos wrote:
22 May 2020, 15:00
If I remove the wire from the WPMII, it will say "System failure". If I put the NetAtmo in the same slot and send (through the black wire) high voltage while WPMII is sending none it will break the WPM.
Again, if you replace an existing connection with the black/grey combo of the Relais, nothing gets "send" that isn't coming from the original source itself like before. That source can only be cut-off now by the Relais, but the Relais doesn't "provide" a new source.
But that doesn't matter now anymore :P

Maybe Stiebel Eltron offers another type of BUS controller that can make your system "smarter".
Home:
Weather Station (3rd Generation + Rain Gauge, Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules)
2 Valves + Relais (Starter Pack), 5 additional Valves

Office:
Thermostat + Relais (2nd Generation)
Healthy Home Coach
Smart Smoke Alarm

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