Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

canacchione
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Sep 2022, 09:08

Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by canacchione »

good morning can you tell me concretely what changes between the modulating netatmo thermostat and the smart netatmo thermostat? I say apart from the modulation, variations in water temperature etc ... concretely, what is going to improve or change compared to the smart version of the netatmo thermostat? Also bearing in mind that in addition to the smart netatmo valves installed on each radiator, I also have a netatmo weather station with internal and external sensor plus the rain gauge everything finally integrates, or the NETATMO everything system, internal + external temperature sensor + rain gauge + thermovalves and internal thermostat probe??? Is there a manual somewhere that explains these things to me??
Does it make sense for me to replace my current smart netatmo with a modulator since I just replaced the boiler with an opentherm daikin model D2CND024A1AA? The current one would only manage the On / Off and I would have to connect it on the on / off terminals of the boiler, while modulating netatmo I would have to connect it on the 3-4 opentherm terminals ... Does it make sense then to replace it on the basis of what I have told you so far??
GEORGzer
Posts: 2663
Joined: 14 Jan 2014, 18:14

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by GEORGzer »

As the name says, the Modulating Thermostat will be able to control your boiler in more ways than just simply switching it on/off. It can dynamically request the amount of „heat“ required, therefore your boiler should run much more efficient.

Regarding product integration of other Netatmo devices, there is no difference to the „analog“ Netatmo Thermostat.
Home: Weather Station (V3 + Rain & Wind Gauge, 3 additional Indoor Modules, Shield), Valves Starter Pack + 7 Valves, Video Doorbell
Office: Thermostat (V2), Healthy Home Coach, Smoke Alarm, 2 2in1 Sensors

Not a Netatmo employee
sergeantd83
Posts: 84
Joined: 12 Nov 2020, 13:21

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by sergeantd83 »

The Smart Thermostat calculates the ON and OFF times of the boiler. So you have a predefined water setpoint for your boiler ( eg. 65 C ) and the thermostat’s algorithm tries to calculate with an efficient way based on time the duration of the ON and the OFF states of the boiler, so the room temperature will be constant to setpoint. Modern condensing boilers can work beyond that way. Condensing works when the return water temperature is less that 55. When you have lower return water temperatures the efficiency is higher. If you take a look at the manual of your boiler you will notice that Efficiency ( 80-60 ) is less than the Efficiency ( 50-30 ). In conclusion lowering the flow-return temperatures the boiler is more efficient and consumes less gas. Here comes the Smart Modulating thermostat. The Smart modulating thermostat can “speak” to the boiler ( OpenTherm protocol ) and instruct the boiler to change the water setpoint ( Control Setpoint ) based on a complete different algorithm than the Smart thermostat. In this way the boiler runs for a longer time period at lower temperatures. This way of operation has 3 main advantages:
1) Less gas consumption
2) Longer burner life-time
3) Less maintenance

Since your boiler is OpenTherm compatible, I believe you should consider the idea of replacing your smart thermostat. Because it is 100% compatible with your installation and you are already in the Netatmo “philosophy”.
Last edited by sergeantd83 on 28 Sep 2022, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
canacchione
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Sep 2022, 09:08

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by canacchione »

Very well, thanks for the clear explanations. In fact, I chose this boiler precisely because of the high thermal efficiency that technical indications can develop. Taking into account that with the previous traditional boiler (and not condensing and not so efficient) I was able to manage with the intelligent netatmo (on/off) with manual setting of the temperature of the hot water (on the boiler thermostat) heating to 48 °C and with netatmo thermostatic valves on all radiators I consumed very little and I was able to have a constant temperature at home of 19.5 ° C. According to you (not yet knowing well the current daikin boiler) at what water supply temperature of the radiators can I try to push myself down of course, if you have a chance to take a look at the technical characteristics of my boiler? As soon as I find a good price, I will definitely switch to the netatmo modulating opentherm model
sergeantd83
Posts: 84
Joined: 12 Nov 2020, 13:21

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by sergeantd83 »

Tuning the max water setpoint is tricky. You have to take into consider the outside temperature, insulation, orientation, size of the radiators, size of the boiler. The most common method of tuning the water setpoint is trial and error because every home is unique. Finally you have to be patient when you experiment with different setpoints until your Smart thermostat will adapt to the new output of your boiler. You will have to wait probably for a week for the new optimized PID algorithm to take effect.
canacchione
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Sep 2022, 09:08

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by canacchione »

Of course I will have to experiment, I thought that from the technical data of the boiler you could somehow trace the performance. The technician who came to give me the quote even spoke that this boiler can work even at 30 ° C of delivery temperature ... even with cast iron radiator systems like mine, I believe in it very little. The general setting with the old boiler until last year was water supply temperature at 48 ° C, netatmo thermovalves set at 19.5 ° C in each room on each radiator and 19.5 ° also set on the netatmo thermostat. The early ignition from 6 in the morning so at 7 more or less when I get up I could have almost the degrees set, then constant 19.5 ° managed it netatmo opening and closing of the valves on and off the boiler (ECO setting) until evening at 22 .... exposure of the house to the EAST
sergeantd83
Posts: 84
Joined: 12 Nov 2020, 13:21

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by sergeantd83 »

When you will reach the room setpoint then the Boiler water setpoint can be really low maybe 32-40 depending the outside temperature ( your installer is right). But the real issue is that your boiler should be able to provide sufficient energy when you change room setpoints and as a result you will need the additional heating power of your boiler, if your water setpoint of your boiler is low, you will never be able to reach a new higher room setpoint. That’s why Smart modulating thermostat is more efficient. Always provides the correct amount of energy so you don’t have to intervene to boiler. It’s t is working like the cruise control of your car.
canacchione
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Sep 2022, 09:08

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by canacchione »

Clear, so I seem to understand that set a certain temperature of the room or netatmo thermostat (depending on whether you use the eco or comfort program), I do not need to manually modify or set for example the echo function of the boiler to establish the temperature of the water supply, the same boiler will modulate it according to the external temperature and the internal temperature and obviously exposure and insulation of the house
sergeantd83
Posts: 84
Joined: 12 Nov 2020, 13:21

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by sergeantd83 »

The ECO and COMFORT setting of the boiler, as far as I know, has nothing to do with regulation. When you set your boiler to comfort the boiler pre-heats a small amount of water to be ready for DHW production. Regarding the heating regulation, the Smart modulating thermostat will send the new boiler water setpoint to the boiler ( Control Setpoint ) and the boiler will modulate its own power to achieve this setting. The control Setpoint setting is different than the max boiler water temperature. The Control Setpoint is a Temperature value that the thermostat requests from the boiler and Max boiler water temperature is the upper temperature limit of the boiler that can’t be exceeded from the thermostat request.

Netatmo team if I am mistaken at any point please correct me. :)
canacchione
Posts: 21
Joined: 21 Sep 2022, 09:08

Re: Netatmo Smart Vs Netatmo Modulating Thermostat

Post by canacchione »

It is clearer to me. I take this opportunity to ask you having currently also the opentherm thermostat of the boiler specifically the DOTROOMTHEAA model, I attach the photo, it is currently connected in position 3-4 of the boiler terminal block in the opentherm position. The thermostat in question was not supplied, I had to buy it as an option but it seems to me that it is absolutely not useful since all the indications and errors appear on the display of the boiler itself.
Also because this thermostat would not be able to manage the netatmo thermovalves. It is true that it is a modulating opetherm... If I wanted to keep my old smart netatmo thermostat I would have to connect it only in the on/off position of the terminal block and I would only manage on and off and of course communication with the thermovalves. If I buy the new version of the thermostat netatmo the modulator, I can not connect both its daikin and modulating netatmo in the same opentherm position as the boiler (3-4), I should make a choice.... at that point I can also remove the daikin thermostat and maybe sell it, right??
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